PHILOMADRID

PhiloMadrid - Pub Philosophy Meetings in Madrid

Thursday, October 25, 2012

from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Flexibility + News

Dear friends,

This Sunday we are discussing Flexibility. A topic in philosophy that does not seem to be very
common, although the Greeks and others have discussed change in detail. But an important key about
flexibility is that it does not destroy the identity of what is changing. I also discuss other ideas
in the few paragraphs I wrote below.

In the meantime Miguel has sent me a link for his maths tertulia this Saturday:
Estimado tertuliano,
Te invitamos a asistir a la próxima Tertulia de Matemáticas:
https://sites.google.com/site/tertuliadematematicas/27-10-2012
Esperamos contar con tu asistencia, y aprovechamos la ocasión para enviarte un cordial saludo.
Tertulia de Matemáticas
-----------------------

Flexibility

Although the concept of flexibility does not seem to be very common in philosophical discussion I
would argue that this concept plays a key role in metaphysical and epistemological thinking.

However, in everyday life we use the term flexibility for personal behaviour and attitudes. Indeed
Angel posted a link on his Facebook wall to a review by Ted Cascio of House & Psychology, Episode 2
(http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hollywood-phd/201012/house-psychology-episode-2) where he
discusses "Functional flexibility is roughly one's self-reported inclination and ability to
effectuate different, sometimes contradictory, behaviour across diverse situations. Examples include
somebody who can, depending on the situation, be either ambitious or lazy,..." And "situationality,
...... situationality involves the feeling that one is incapable of engaging diverse behaviour but
also that situations nevertheless tend to automatically "pull out" such behaviour."

We can even go further to suggest that today flexibility is such an integrated concept to human
behaviours that it appears in many aspects of our life. For example, for all intents and purposes
the term has been hijacked by human resources departments and turned into a zombie, when they say
things like -the successful candidate will need to be flexible-, to mean something like you do what
we want you to do whilst we have no reason to adopt to your needs. Or in advertising, the flexible
saving plans, the flexible car design, the flexible kitchen appliance, the flexible woman, and so forth.

But as an epistemic concept in philosophy I would argue that the term is key in helping us
understand some serious metaphysical issues we encounter when trying to understand the world around.

When we look at the world around us we physically see (perceive) two distinctive features, some
things always change and some thing always remain the same or constant. But we also see things that
sometimes they are constant but then change to something else. The day night cycle is a constant
with built in change. Mountain ranges tend to remain the same for a really long time (but they can
also be said to be changing but that is not really relevant here). Rivers, so beloved by Greek
philosophers, can be said to be constantly changing.

The question is how do we understand this dichotomy between what is fixed and what is changing? How
do we, for example, find the causal connection between the "I", the "self" that is a constant
throughout our normal healthy life and the "me" who changes with age, temperatures, chemicals in the
air, other people's behaviour etc?

Indeed I propose that we understand (epistemology) this relationship between what we perceive as
fixed and what changes in nature (metaphysics) by developing the concept of flexibility. One of the
key meanings of flexibility is of something moving from one state to another whilst maintaining its
necessary and sufficient conditions for its identity. When the "me" changes from a state of neutral
emotions to a state of happiness I do not cease to be the "I" that I identify as the master of the "me".

We can now go further and suggest that with this conceptual idea of flexibility, we can now become
proactive with our environment to change the environment with a degree of confidence that we can
change it to the way we want to perceive it. But, of course, I say a degree of confidence because we
also know that change can also bring about a loss of perceived identity. When we cut a tree in the
forest we have destroyed the identity of the tree; it ceases to be a tree and of course become
something else, i.e. wood. Sometime we get it wrong, we think we are baking a fruit cake but end up
with a pappy mass of wet dough.

Thus, although the concept of flexibility is by definition an epistemological concept, its sole
purpose is to help us understand the world around us and to use it to interact with that world. I
would say that flexibility serves as a bridge between the metaphysical world and the epistemological
world which we inhabit at the same time.

Best Lawrence


---------------------
Cementerio Británico

Redacto el presente mensaje tanto en español como en inglés con el objeto de comunicarles el
programa de visitas guiadas sábados por la mañana al Cementerio Británico.

Las visitas empiezan a las 11 horas en la entrada del Cementerio Británico, calle del Comandante
Fontanes 7, distrito de Carabanchel
*sábado, día 27 de octubre, cuando daré las explicaciones en español
*sábado, día 3 de noviembre, cuando daré las explicaciones en inglés.

Lo dejo a su elección cuál día acuda y no hay necesidad de avisar.

Si prefiere hacer la visita en una fecha no programada por la presente lista, no hay más que avisarme.

Tomen nota de nuestra página web < www.britishcemeterymadrid.com > que contiene información de la
historia del Cementerio y el mapa de su ubicación.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am writing this in both Spanish and in English to provide the programme of Saturday morning guided
visits to the British Cemetery.

We meet at 11 o'clock at the Cemetery entrance in Calle del Comandante Fontanes 7 in Carabanchel
* the visit on Saturday 27th October will be in Spanish
* the visit on Saturday 3rd November will be in English.

The choice of date is left to you and there is no need tell me in advance of the visit whether you
are coming.
If you would like a visit on a different date, just let me know and I will arrange it.

Do take note of our website < www.britishcemeterymadrid.com > where you will find details of the
Cemetery's history and a map of its location.

David Butler

------------------------------



Best Lawrence

PhiloMadrid Meeting
Meet 6:30pm
Centro Segoviano
Alburquerque, 14
28010 Madrid
914457935
Metro: Bilbao

-----------Ignacio------------
Thursday's Open Tertulia in English
Important Notice: From December 1st, the Tertulia will take place at O'Donnells (ex-Moore's) Irish
Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal)
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/

----------From Luisa---------
Please not you will have to let her know in advance if you wish to attend, thanks:
Data of language exchange,
Location: Café Comercial
Address: Glorieta de Bilbao, 7
Website location:
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=es&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=glorieta+de+Bilbao+en+Madrid&fb=1&hq=glorieta+de+Bilbao&hnear=Madrid,+España&cid=168580715753984644
Dates: on Saturday
Time: from 12:30 to 14:45
Price: 2.50 € (exchange organizing, hiring the top of the cafeteria and coffee, tea, soda, wine or
beer are included).
Luisa - email to confirm please alvarez_luisa@hotmail.com
--------end----








from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Flexibility + News

Thursday, October 18, 2012

from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: What does our generation owe the future?

What does our generation owe the future?

Dear Friends,

This Sunday we are discussing: What does our generation owe the future?

This is a question that we have been asking ourselves for a few decades now. Maybe it started during
the nuclear age in the twentieth century to the present day concerns about the environment and
global warming. All very emotional stuff and of great importance.

But if we look at past generations to see what they left us that is of any worth and value we can
sum up this treasure in one word: knowledge. The few monuments that scatter the globe are of course
very useful for tourism and certain parts of academia. But in and of themselves they are not worth
much apart from a curiosity value. However, the geometry of say, the pyramids, that had to be used
to build these things, has served human kind for millennia. The fact that today we still have no
idea why these pyramids had to be built, who built them and how did they do it, is besides the point
from any knowledge that might have been passed on to future generations.

Indeed, I would say that the only useful thing that we can leave future generations is valid
knowledge. Of course, scientific knowledge is always a priority, but we mustn't forget the arts,
political enlightenment (human rights and cooperation), and a mix of meaningful cultural traditions
(eg festivals, gastronomy). In other words, ideally if we are to leave anything for the future
(generations) it really ought to be something that will contribute to their well being. For example,
we might be able to show how we managed to overcome short term greed attainable only by a few
people, to sustainable long term income achievable by the many. That sort of thing!

But the idea of "we owe something" suggests a moral obligation rather than a gift we leave others.
Do we have a moral obligation to leave anything to future generations?

At face value I don't think we have such an obligation, for example, on the grounds that there is no
factual reality about the future. And even if we can say for certain that there will be future
generations, we are only confirming that the biological programme to reproduce has been successful.
But a biological programme in and of itself does not have a moral scope; a moral scope only applies
when biological entities employ cooperative strategies, ie employ rational relationships.

Maybe the moral obligation is only valid for our generation: what does our generation owe members of
our generation? And if we meet our moral obligations for our generation then the next generation
would benefit from our wise and moral solutions. If we get it wrong, not only future generations are
not going to get anything from us, but they'll be very grateful they we left them nothing from our
generation. In the same way that we are grateful that the generation of the inquisition has not left
us anything useful from their evil deeds, apart, that is, from how to be evil.

Best Lawrence

Alfonso's play is still on until 28 October: Gaviotas Subterraneas. at the TeatroEspañol C/
Principe, 25 – Plaza de Santa Ana (Barrio de la Leteras). Tickets from the box office or
www.telentrada.com. The play starts at 20.30pm.
Impressive even if I am biased and a great fan of Alfonso!!!!

In the meantime:

---from Carmen's jewellery TarTeTaTin ---
Carmen has sent me a link for her jewellery and info (in French), TarTeTaTin
http://loversofmint.blogspot.fr/search/label/createurs
-------

---------------------
Cementerio Británico

Redacto el presente mensaje tanto en español como en inglés con el objeto de comunicarles el
programa de visitas guiadas sábados por la mañana al Cementerio Británico.

Las visitas empiezan a las 11 horas en la entrada del Cementerio Británico, calle del Comandante
Fontanes 7, distrito de Carabanchel
*sábado, día 27 de octubre, cuando daré las explicaciones en español
*sábado, día 3 de noviembre, cuando daré las explicaciones en inglés.

Lo dejo a su elección cuál día acuda y no hay necesidad de avisar.

Si prefiere hacer la visita en una fecha no programada por la presente lista, no hay más que avisarme.

Tomen nota de nuestra página web < www.britishcemeterymadrid.com > que contiene información de la
historia del Cementerio y el mapa de su ubicación.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am writing this in both Spanish and in English to provide the programme of Saturday morning guided
visits to the British Cemetery.

We meet at 11 o'clock at the Cemetery entrance in Calle del Comandante Fontanes 7 in Carabanchel
* the visit on Saturday 27th October will be in Spanish
* the visit on Saturday 3rd November will be in English.

The choice of date is left to you and there is no need tell me in advance of the visit whether you
are coming.
If you would like a visit on a different date, just let me know and I will arrange it.

Do take note of our website < www.britishcemeterymadrid.com > where you will find details of the
Cemetery's history and a map of its location.

David Butler

------------------------------



Best Lawrence

PhiloMadrid Meeting
Meet 6:30pm
Centro Segoviano
Alburquerque, 14
28010 Madrid
914457935
Metro: Bilbao

-----------Ignacio------------
Thursday's Open Tertulia in English
Important Notice: From December 1st, the Tertulia will take place at O'Donnells (ex-Moore's) Irish
Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal)
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/

----------From Luisa---------
Please not you will have to let her know in advance if you wish to attend, thanks:
Data of language exchange,
Location: Café Comercial
Address: Glorieta de Bilbao, 7
Website location:
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=es&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=glorieta+de+Bilbao+en+Madrid&fb=1&hq=glorieta+de+Bilbao&hnear=Madrid,+España&cid=168580715753984644
Dates: on Saturday
Time: from 12:30 to 14:45
Price: 2.50 € (exchange organizing, hiring the top of the cafeteria and coffee, tea, soda, wine or
beer are included).
Luisa - email to confirm please alvarez_luisa@hotmail.com
--------end----






from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: What does our generation owe the future?

Thursday, October 11, 2012

from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Dignity

A very short essay at the end + last week's news


Dear friends,

Alfonso's play is still on until 28 October: Gaviotas Subterraneas. at the TeatroEspañol C/
Principe, 25 – Plaza de Santa Ana (Barrio de la Leteras). Tickets from the box office or
www.telentrada.com. The play starts at 20.30pm.
Impressive even if I am biased and a great fan of Alfonso!!!!

In the meantime:

---from Carmen's jewellery TarTeTaTin ---
Carmen has sent me a link for her jewellery and info (in French), TarTeTaTin
http://loversofmint.blogspot.fr/search/label/createurs
-------

---------------------
Cementerio Británico

Redacto el presente mensaje tanto en español como en inglés con el objeto de comunicarles el
programa de visitas guiadas sábados por la mañana al Cementerio Británico.

Las visitas empiezan a las 11 horas en la entrada del Cementerio Británico, calle del Comandante
Fontanes 7, distrito de Carabanchel
*sábado, día 27 de octubre, cuando daré las explicaciones en español
*sábado, día 3 de noviembre, cuando daré las explicaciones en inglés.

Lo dejo a su elección cuál día acuda y no hay necesidad de avisar.

Si prefiere hacer la visita en una fecha no programada por la presente lista, no hay más que avisarme.

Tomen nota de nuestra página web < www.britishcemeterymadrid.com > que contiene información de la
historia del Cementerio y el mapa de su ubicación.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am writing this in both Spanish and in English to provide the programme of Saturday morning guided
visits to the British Cemetery.

We meet at 11 o'clock at the Cemetery entrance in Calle del Comandante Fontanes 7 in Carabanchel
* the visit on Saturday 27th October will be in Spanish
* the visit on Saturday 3rd November will be in English.

The choice of date is left to you and there is no need tell me in advance of the visit whether you
are coming.
If you would like a visit on a different date, just let me know and I will arrange it.

Do take note of our website < www.britishcemeterymadrid.com > where you will find details of the
Cemetery's history and a map of its location.

David Butler

------------------------------



Best Lawrence

PhiloMadrid Meeting
Meet 6:30pm
Centro Segoviano
Alburquerque, 14
28010 Madrid
914457935
Metro: Bilbao

-----------Ignacio------------
Thursday's Open Tertulia in English
Important Notice: From December 1st, the Tertulia will take place at O'Donnells (ex-Moore's) Irish
Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal)
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/

----------From Luisa---------
Please not you will have to let her know in advance if you wish to attend, thanks:
Data of language exchange,
Location: Café Comercial
Address: Glorieta de Bilbao, 7
Website location:
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=es&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=glorieta+de+Bilbao+en+Madrid&fb=1&hq=glorieta+de+Bilbao&hnear=Madrid,+España&cid=168580715753984644

Dates: on Saturday
Time: from 12:30 to 14:45
Price: 2.50 € (exchange organizing, hiring the top of the cafeteria and coffee, tea, soda, wine or
beer are included).
Luisa - email to confirm please alvarez_luisa@hotmail.com
--------end----



Dignity,

Most commentators agree that dignity is some form of "an innate right to respect and ethical
treatment," [of people] or "inherent, inalienable right" (wikipedia) that encompasses many of human
social activities including for example politics, law, morality itself, and medicine.

And an even less disputed aspect of dignity is that it pertains first and foremost to human beings.
Being a human being is sufficient condition to quality for the right of dignity. However, today many
would extend dignity to animals as well.

An important question would be what is the difference between the terms dignity and respect? What is
the moral impact in the term dignity that maybe does not exist in the term respect? One key factor
is that when we invoke morality we are prompted from the presence of good or bad or evil. If, that
is, we are not causing harm, or maybe causing good to others, we might be said to be treating the
other person without the dignity they deserve and if we cause harm we are treating the person
without dignity.

Of course, harm need not necessarily mean physical harm but maybe psychological harm. It might be
argued that even psychological harm is physical harm, which I would agree with, but for our purpose
this is a minor detail. Thus while physical pain is something that can be "measured" so to speak
physiologically, how do we measure say emotion distress? But this is a technical question; I would
argue that a rational human being would be repulsed by a situation where someone is subjected to
emotional distress. And that repulsion is sufficient for us to recognise that someone is not being
treated with dignity. A rational human being would have been repulsed, for example, by the images of
Iraqi prisoners of war who were subjected to humiliating and undignified treatment.

Maybe the weakness of dignity is precisely the idea that "a rational human being would be repulsed"
as I say above. Although there seems to a universal law that human beings ought to be treated with
dignity and ethically correct, there does not seem to be a similar law that we, human beings, have
the duty to be rational agents and act rationally. And here most commentators would agree that
morality pertains to rational agents.

Indeed, human rights are guaranteed if people act rationally and ethically, but there is no
compelling force to always act this way. In our discussion on arrogance, I proposed a strong version
of arrogance: one thinks (believes) not only that one is right and that others are insignificant and
irrelevant, but that one also thinks that one is immune from the effects of even being wrong or
doing wrong.

Being arrogant towards people is a clear example of treating others without dignity, not only
because the others are not respected but also because, in the strong version, one does not exercise
an element of moral consideration when interacting with the other person.

Maybe even dignity is subject a strong version, that is, people treat others without dignity if they
think that they are immune or above the ethical restraints of morality. The problem for us is that
whilst those who think they are above the law, sooner or later they might come across their
comeuppance, what are the consequences of one thinking that they are above morality and ethics?

Best

Lawrence




from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Dignity

Friday, October 05, 2012

from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Dietary ethics+ Going to see Alfonso’s play

Short Essay + Visit to the Theatre + News


Dear friends,

This Sunday we are discussing Dietary Ethics.

So whilst you are digesting your breakfast this morning think about this:

We are visiting the theatre this Saturday, 6th October, to see one of Alfonso's plays: Gaviotas
Subterraneas. We are meeting at 7.30pm outside the TeatroEspañol C/ Principe, 25 – Plaza de Santa
Ana (Barrio de la Leteras). This should give us enough time to buy the tickets although you can also
buy them from www.telentrada.com. The play starts at 20.30pm, and, unfortunately, I don't know if
Alfonso will be there. Alfonso please surprise us!!!

In the meantime:
---------------------
Cementerio Británico

Redacto el presente mensaje tanto en español como en inglés con el objeto de comunicarles el
programa de visitas guiadas sábados por la mañana al Cementerio Británico.

Las visitas empiezan a las 11 horas en la entrada del Cementerio Británico, calle del Comandante
Fontanes 7, distrito de Carabanchel
*sábado, día 27 de octubre, cuando daré las explicaciones en español
*sábado, día 3 de noviembre, cuando daré las explicaciones en inglés.

Lo dejo a su elección cuál día acuda y no hay necesidad de avisar.

Si prefiere hacer la visita en una fecha no programada por la presente lista, no hay más que avisarme.

Tomen nota de nuestra página web < www.britishcemeterymadrid.com > que contiene información de la
historia del Cementerio y el mapa de su ubicación.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am writing this in both Spanish and in English to provide the programme of Saturday morning guided
visits to the British Cemetery.

We meet at 11 o'clock at the Cemetery entrance in Calle del Comandante Fontanes 7 in Carabanchel
* the visit on Saturday 27th October will be in Spanish
* the visit on Saturday 3rd November will be in English.

The choice of date is left to you and there is no need tell me in advance of the visit whether you
are coming.
If you would like a visit on a different date, just let me know and I will arrange it.

Do take note of our website < www.britishcemeterymadrid.com > where you will find details of the
Cemetery's history and a map of its location.

David Butler

------------------------------

---from Carmen's jewellery TarTeTaTin ---
Carmen has sent me a link for her jewellery and info (in French), TarTeTaTin
http://loversofmint.blogspot.fr/search/label/createurs
-------




Best Lawrence

PhiloMadrid Meeting
Meet 6:30pm
Centro Segoviano
Alburquerque, 14
28010 Madrid
914457935
Metro: Bilbao

-----------Ignacio------------
Thursday's Open Tertulia in English
Important Notice: From December 1st, the Tertulia will take place at O'Donnells (ex-Moore's) Irish
Pub, c/ Barceló 1 (metro Tribunal)
http://sites.google.com/site/tertuliainenglishmadrid/

----------From Luisa---------
Please not you will have to let her know in advance if you wish to attend, thanks:
Data of language exchange,
Location: Café Comercial
Address: Glorieta de Bilbao, 7
Website location:
http://maps.google.com/maps/place?hl=es&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=glorieta+de+Bilbao+en+Madrid&fb=1&hq=glorieta+de+Bilbao&hnear=Madrid,+España&cid=168580715753984644
Dates: on Saturday
Time: from 12:30 to 14:45
Price: 2.50 € (exchange organizing, hiring the top of the cafeteria and coffee, tea, soda, wine or
beer are included).
Luisa - email to confirm please alvarez_luisa@hotmail.com
--------end----



Dietary ethics

If by dietary ethics we mean ethical issues related to the supply and consumption of food, we have,
no doubt, a very wide subject. As an applied philosophical topic we certainly have a wide and broad
topic. But these past thirty or so years the forefront issue of dietary ethics has been
vegetarianism and eating meat.

However, eating meat is just one issue in a rather very serious topic. Serious, of course, because
as a biological dynamic system we need food as energy to sustain this physical system. So from
amongst these serious topics we can have a quick look at the recent history of the topic at hand.

The perennial issue relating to dietary ethics is famine, and malnourishment as a distant cousin:
indeed even in the 21st century famine still affects a good part of the human population, including,
of course, the so called advanced or first world countries.

The next big issue is indeed the question of eating meat. And the ethical problem here encompasses
the cause of pain and suffering to animals, exploitation of living creatures like us, and some would
even argue the health issues relating to eating meat.

A more recent question is genetically modified crops, and to a lesser extent radiated food to make
it last longer. The fear about genetically modified crops is that we don't know what the long term
effects are of manipulating natural crops. But the real issue is that crops are not only genetically
manipulated to produce more crops, or to withstand adverse conditions, but that the seeds from these
crops cannot be used for next year's crop. New seeds have to be bought each year from a few
companies that dominate the industry.

Under a subheading we can also include the production of certain crops not for food, but to be
converted into fuel to drive cars in western countries. The very same cars, we can add, that caused
so much pollution that an alternative "green" fuel is need as a substitute for fissile fuels.

Although the genetically modified crops problem does introduce the question of heath, it is the
modern production of food and pre cooked foods that create the biggest ethical problems. Never mind
the e-numbers or food additives, most of the prepared foods today have a high content of sugar(s)
and or salt amongst many other things that are know to have a direct causal effect on obesity, heart
diseases, diabetes etc. And all these diseases are high killers of people in modern society.

One of the ethical implications is that many people only have access to processed foods or pre
cooked foods, including fast foods. And this limited access is probably because of low income and
lack of retail facilities who do stock healthy food. The other ethical issue is that we also happen
to like these problem ingredients in processed foods. Thus, like smoking, an industry thrives on our
physiological weakness to certain chemicals that can kill us in the long term.

The ethical issues relating to food, it seems, go far beyond the causing of pain to animals.

We can ask ourselves whether food should be controlled by businesses joint with the government, or
whether food should be overseen by technical experts, a large proportion of whom would be health
experts. But is the medical profession itself sufficiently objective to manage such a basic human
need or even a good model to follow as experts? Remember that a serious ethical issue in medical
research is the limited supply of negative data from research, which many argues skews medical
results and hence medical treatment? Indeed, is science guilt free from manipulation, intended or an
unintended consequence, to make it the guardian of our food supplies?

We can also ask whether it is possible to have a supply food chain that can meet the criteria of
supply enough food to everyone, supply food that is healthy and sustain a model of food production
that can yield economic returns on investment? Some problems here are quite obvious, logistics is
one of them. But a more fundamental ethical issue is whether it is possible to have such an
undertaking as food production for the world without being tainted by corruption. An I mention
corruption on the belief that people become corrupt because of limited access to and supply of
resources, in our case food?

Unfortunately, dietary ethics will always be a lower league player because, the ethics here does not
depend on emotion reactions, but on scientific hard fact. And dietary ethics has been so far an
emotional issue. But more seriously, scientific hard facts are things we are not generally thought
to understand, let alone be emotional about.

Best Lawrence








from Lawrence, Sunday PhiloMadrid meeting: Dietary ethics+ Going to see Alfonso's play

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